-- Posted by JohnTheNormalOne at 3:51 pm on July 2, 2009 First of all, I guess everyone here will think that I am extremely biased, considering that I am a Serb, so to make it clear: I am trying to be as unbiased as possible. If you don't have the patience to read all of this, then don't. Just don't troll around. Lets go to the roots of the story. At the end of the First World War, Serbia, as a member of the Allies, was about to claim a part of the Austro-Hungarian empire, which had fallen apart. The general idea was to take all the areas with the Serb majority, which would have been the rational choice, since it belonged to no one. But the Croatians and Slovenians proposed the idea of unifying all South Slavic people in one country - Yugoslavia. It would soon show that they just wanted to use Yugoslavia to avoid getting annexed by other Allies, like Italy, for example. But the king of Serbia didn't realize that, and decided to create Yugoslavia, even though the parliament was against that. So the Yugoslavia was created. As soon as the diplomatic fallout of the war settled, factions across Yugoslavia emerged that were pushing for the separation of Croatia, for example. They even went as far as to assassinate the king. So, during the Second World War, the government of Yugoslavia decided to sign a non-aggression pact with the Axis forces. As soon as that happened, the crowd in Belgrade (the capital), overthrew the government, and brought a new, pro-allied government. So, Hitler decided to invade. When German forces entered the Croatian part of the country, they were warmly greeted, and immediately a Croatian puppet state was formed. The bishop of Zagreb (Croatian capital) said that it was the greatest day in the history of the Croatian nation. A fascist government was put in place. Croatia spread across half of the Yugoslavia, but a lot of that land wasn't populated by Croats. So the government put in place a plan to get rid of the Serbs. Basically, they decided to kill 1/3 of the Serbs, expel another third, and 'croatianize' the rest, meaning turning them into Catholics, because generally Serbs are Orthodox Christians and Croatians are Catholics. So they opened concentration camps, in which about half a million people were killed. Of course not all of the Croatians were like that, but that was the general picture. On the other side, in the modern day Serbia and Bosnia, there was a completely different picture. For example, Belgrade (capital of Yugoslavia and Serbia) was carpet bombed by the Germans, and the population suffered terribly (in the east from the Germans, and in the west by the Ustashas, the Croatian fascists, which I talked about). The population here was extremely rebellious against the invaders, a trait going back to the Turkish invasion. So two large resistance movements formed: Chetniks, the royalists, having learned the downsides of Yugoslavia, their goal was to repel the Germans and establish the Greater Serbia (the plan from the end of WW1, which was abandoned in favor of Yugoslavia); and the Partisans, the communists, which wanted to repel the Germans and establish a new, communist Yugoslavia. Chetniks were, obviously, mostly Serbs, while the Partisans were the members of all Yugoslavian nationalities. Combined, they were the largest resistance movement, even larger than the French resistance. The Partisans won against the Chetniks (because they also fought amongst each other). Throughout the war, they held large parts of the country liberated, until eventually they drew back the Germans completely. Obviously it was the allies were to thank for that, but most of the field work was done by the resistance. Russians dispatched a unit of tanks to help push out the Germans, and the western allies, wanting to help push the Germans out, carpet bombed Belgrade (?!). I forgot to mention, the Partisans won against the Chetniks (because they also fought amongst each other). In the end, Chetniks even sided with the Axis, in order to destroy the Partisans, but failed anyway. But anyway, the fact that the resistance itself was the main factor in the liberation, led to Yugoslavia being the only communist country in Europe that wasn't a Russian puppet. Yugoslavia wasn't a part of the Warsaw pact, and it was one of the founding states of the Unaligned movement. So again the same stories, same people pushing for independence of their states, which finally culminated in the Yugoslavian civil war. So they finally managed to create their own states after a century of trying. Slovenia separated first, almost without fighting, and it was soon followed by Croatia. War broke out in Croatia, between Croatians and the Yugoslav army (mostly Serbs, cause Croatians and Slovenians deserted). Peacekeepers came in, and the Serbs were pushed into small pockets of land across modern Croatia. But then the war in Bosnia broke out. Basically the Muslims wanted to make it their own country, the Croatians wanted to take Croatian parts of it, and Serbians wanted Serbian parts. So heavy fighting ensued, and everyone was killing each other, so the peacekeepers moved in. All of the sided committed war crimes, but the western media turned a blind eye on the crimes of Croatians and Muslims. So the Serbs were the barbaric nation, while the others were goodies. So Bosnia is still fucked up, it is basically separated in the Serbian part, which occupies half of the land, and the Croato-Muslim part, which occupies the other half. But that was not the end. Remember those Serbian pockets in Croatia? Croatians decided to bypass the peacekeepers, and moved in with their military, which ended with more than 200.000 Serbian refugees having to move to Serbia. Even though this was a serious crime, the world decided to turn a blind eye on it too. In the end, everything fell apart. I cannot provide the exact number of deaths, but it is somewhere around 100.000 soldiers and civilians on all sides. Now to make it clear once again: each side had its own campaign of genocide, and the Serbs were the most efficient, so to say. I wish none of that ever happened, and I can't understand just how it happened, but it also annoys me when people say that it is only Serbs who killed others. Another thing that annoys me that people automatically assume that all the Serbs are to blame. Neither all of the Serbs, Croats or Muslims are to blame for what happened. It is only the certain groups that played part in the conflict. For example, Serbia was ruled by a dictator (Milosevic). There were massive protests in the capital, trying to bring him down, and eventually he was brought down in 2000. There was a large number of people who opposed the killings, but no one mentions them. When other nations do something like that, everyone blames the dictator. But in Serbia, everyone blames the people. It is double standards like this that really annoy me. Of course, people did the killing, not the dictator, but you cannot blame the entire nation for that. And in the end, the total death toll of Yugoslav wars was five times lower than the amount of people killed by the Croatian fascist government in the WW2. But still, the Serbs are barbarians... Not that I am trying to justify anything, or to blame all of the Croatian people, but I am trying to point out just how biased the media and similar 'factions' are when they speak of this region. Anyway, to look to the south: Kosovo. Basically it has an Albanian majority. So lets separate, they say. And everyone is like, they should separate, that's cool (seen a lot of such opinions here on LW). Ok then, cool, let all of the minorities in the world separate. We would have a million countries. Sure, we will let them separate. But lets see Texas and Indians and Cascadia and whatever separate first. On the other side, during the 90s, the Serbian police forces did come in conflict with the Albanian militia. Same policies were used here, ending in the police killing a number of Albanians, both militia and civilians. The numbers vary, with the US State Department claiming around 10.000 and KFOR and International War Crime Tribunal claiming about 3.500 dead, from which about 1000 are victims of war crimes. On the other side the Albanian militia was carrying out raids on Serbian forces and civilians, in which up to 1.500 people were killed and about 500 were kidnapped. Organs of the kidnapped were later sold on the black market (trials concerning that have been held recently here). And then the USA decided to intervene, claiming on one occasion that Serbs have killed hundreds of thousands of Albanians, then claiming that they have killed tens of thousands, then claiming that none were killed thanks to NATO forces (lol?). Anyway, they invaded. About half a million Albanians left Kosovo. Then came the NATO air raids, which killed about 1.500 civilians in Kosovo, and numerous objects, mostly civilian, across Serbia (most notable being the incident in which a train was completely destroyed while it was crossing a bridge, there is actually a video of it from the bomb's camera, its on youtube). Serbia allowed the peacekeepers to enter Kosovo. The Albanian refugees returned. The agreement required the Serbian forces to leave the area. Immediately after that, Albanians started a campaign against the Serbs, resulting in about 200.000 Serbs leaving Kosovo (they still haven't returned), while the peacekeepers just stood and watched. The peacekeepers promised peace and safety for everyone, especially the Serb minority, which was now under threat. Then came the events of 2004 - three Albanian boys drowned and the fourth one claimed that they were chased by Serbs into the river (this was later proven to be a lie, made up by his parents). Anyway, some 250.000 Albanians all across Kosovo began a massive attack on Serbian settlements, burning down some 20-30 churches (if I remember well), and Serbian villages. Even more Serbs had to leave the area, while the peacekeepers barely did anything. I think that the event wasn't even mentioned in the western media. After that came the 'independence' of Kosovo, which has been recognized by about 50 countries, only a quarter of the UN. So, who is the winner here? The US. The US has gained a puppet state in the middle of Europe. The largest US European base is in Kosovo. Just take a look at Pristina - its main street is called 'Boulevard of Bill Clinton' (seriously). They have his pictures and US flags on every corner. The independence was against all international laws, and the International Tribunal (not sure about the exact name), is currently reviewing the situation, and probable actions against those who recognized the independence (obviously that is going nowhere, considering who recognized it). But anyway, Kosovo is going to be stuck in this situation for years to come. The entire Kosovo situation is just a part of the Greater Albania project, which involves taking parts of Macedonia and Greece as well (Macedonia is completely fucked up because of that). But now they are undertaking a new campaign. Now they are claiming that Serbian churches and other cultural heritage there are actually Albanian. For example, the Battle of Kosovo(1389): It was the battle that marked the end of the medieval Serbia. Turks attacked Serbia which was torn by feudal conflicts. Prince Lazar rallied the Serbs and stood against the Turks, even though defeat was expected. The army, mainly composed of Serbs, also had a number of units from other Balkan nationalities. During the battle, Milos Obilic, a Serbian knight, surrendered to the Turks and was taken to the Turkish sultan. There he killed the sultan and was immediately executed by the Turks. During the battle prince Lazar was captured by the Turks and beheaded. Tactically, the battle is considered a draw (bells in Paris were ringing to mark a victory of Christians against the Turkish invasion), but strategically, Turks won. Serbia had no more forces with which to defend itself, so it soon fell into Turkish hands. After that, an almost 500 years long occupation ensued, ending in a Serbian revolution in the 19th century. Anyway to get back to the topic. This event is a critical point of the Serbian history, and as such it was often depicted in the stories and poetry of the people during those times. And now, after 600 years, Albanians suddenly come claiming that, in one case, Milos Obilic was Albanian, and in the worse cases that the entire army was Albanian, and that there were almost no Serbs in the battle. It is actually hilarious to see how far they are ready to go. They are so unsure of themselves that they are ready to steal the history of others. So, in the end, the entire 'barbaric' image of Serbia is based on those couple of years in the 90s, while the fact that Serbs were on the allied side in both world wars (and were amongst the first in casualties), that Serbia has removed the dictator and is a normal country again, and other stuff (which sadly I cannot remember right now) are all overlooked. Holy shit this is long... Considering what you have heard from the media is contradicting what I wrote, you will probably expect me to be extremely biased. But trust me, I was trying to be as unbiased as possible. Compared to what many people in the country think, this would actually be considered a treason, lulz. But seriously, I'd like to add that it is not Croatians, Muslims, Albanians or Serbs who are the 'evil', barbaric ones. It is the certain factions in each of these that are. I am really sick of the picture that is being made by the media. I know that it is all politics and that the men in power don't give a fuck about the Balkans or whatever. I just wanted to provide you with a different perspective. If you have read all of this, thank you... It sure was an effort   Anyone here who knows anything about any of this (unlike most of LW) ? -- Posted by JohnTheNormalOne at 3:51 pm on July 2, 2009 Fuck, this is reaaaaaaly long! -- Posted by BrittneyNicolle at 3:52 pm on July 2, 2009 OhMyFuckingGod. Wayyy Too Long. -- Posted by Heatherrox at 3:52 pm on July 2, 2009 haha...nobody will read this -- Posted by JohnTheNormalOne at 3:52 pm on July 2, 2009 Quote: from BrittneyNicolle at 12:52 am on July 3, 2009 OhMyFuckingGod. Wayyy Too Long. Yeah... But still I hope at least someone reads a bit of it... -- Posted by hahahahastupid at 3:53 pm on July 2, 2009 haha i didn't even start to read it. It's too long -- Posted by extasee at 3:56 pm on July 2, 2009 ok