-- Posted by penumbra at 2:53 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Here- an essentially all encompassing refutation of "logical" arguments for god. http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Top_ten_arguments_for_the_existence_of_God -- Posted by h a t t at 2:55 am on Jan. 6, 2009 there's nothing logical about faith -- Posted by Tyrant at 2:55 am on Jan. 6, 2009 i think you've used the word logically too loosely, because there is a perfectly logical reason -- Posted by Trashed at 2:55 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Nobody ever said they believed in god because of logic, people believe in him I think because they want something to fill in some holes in their lives, and having something to believe in, knowing in your heart that someone cares is a good eniough reason to believe, -- Posted by blufindr at 2:57 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Logicality =/= faith. -- Posted by Gaelle at 3:01 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from Tyrant at 2:55 am on Jan. 6, 2009 i think you've used the word logically too loosely, because there is a perfectly logical reason Exactly. People believe in god, because they sometimes need something higher and more powerful to believe in then themselves or a different leader. To me that's perfectly logical, though not believable. -- Posted by skynewton7 at 3:01 am on Jan. 6, 2009 how do u know the taste of an apple if u never eat it? how do u know if God is real if u never feel it -- Posted by Googoie at 3:03 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from blufindr at 5:57 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Logicality =/= faith. indeedo. -- Posted by blufindr at 3:06 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from skynewton7 at 10:01 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 how do u know the taste of an apple if u never eat it? how do u know if God is real if u never feel it Feeling like something is there isn't the same as experiencing it. Thus, 'feeling' like God's there is not proof for his existence. -- Posted by Dass at 3:08 am on Jan. 6, 2009 as it is right now, the y guy arguing pro-science are no better than those for pro-intelligent design neither has any more proof than theories and calculations and if argument is all you need to proves the existence of something, then surely neither has the higher ground -- Posted by penumbra at 4:09 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from Dass at 3:08 am on Jan. 6, 2009 as it is right now, the y guy arguing pro-science are no better than those for pro-intelligent design neither has any more proof than theories and calculations and if argument is all you need to proves the existence of something, then surely neither has the higher ground Sigh... -- Posted by Taurian at 4:21 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from Dass at 11:08 am on Jan. 6, 2009 as it is right now, the y guy arguing pro-science are no better than those for pro-intelligent design neither has any more proof than theories and calculations and if argument is all you need to proves the existence of something, then surely neither has the higher ground Irrefutable evidence is all you need to prove the existence of something; science has it by the bucketload, all religion has are unsubstantiated doctrines. -- Posted by myystic at 4:49 am on Jan. 6, 2009 if you believe logic is correlated, or even identical, to validity, you've got some philosophy classes to take. -- Posted by johnroberts at 5:35 am on Jan. 6, 2009 I'm an agnostic. There is logic.. sort of.. If God exists, he can exist outside of logic because he would be omnipotent. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 7:45 am on Jan. 6, 2009 That would be why, generally speaking, it's stupid to attempt to convince someone that your beliefs are the correct ones. -- Posted by GeneCosta at 10:41 am on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from skynewton7 at 3:01 am on Jan. 6, 2009 how do u know the taste of an apple if u never eat it? how do u know if God is real if u never feel it How do you know if invisible pink unicorns who shit candy canes out of their mouths are real if you never felt it land on your face? -- Posted by obvious child at 12:28 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from h a t t at 12:55 am on Jan. 6, 2009 there's nothing logical about faith For the most part in regards to religious faith. However logic does state it is foolish to think something does not exist merely because no evidence exists. A logical position would be it may or may not exist. Lack of information does not equate to either way. -- Posted by LittleBombs at 12:31 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 People like something to believe in. The idea of God gives people hope, and can actually make someone a better person. Whats so wrong about that? -- Posted by obvious child at 12:41 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from LittleBombs at 10:31 am on Jan. 6, 2009 People like something to believe in. The idea of God gives people hope, and can actually make someone a better person. Whats so wrong about that? When they become pompous assholes like Dobson. When they become religious murderers like Bin Laden. When they become extremely intolerant whackjobs like Graham Jr. When they ignore all evidence to suit their beliefs and fuck life over for the rest of us. -- Posted by LittleBombs at 12:47 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from obvious child at 12:41 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 Quote: from LittleBombs at 10:31 am on Jan. 6, 2009 People like something to believe in. The idea of God gives people hope, and can actually make someone a better person.    Whats so wrong about that? When they become pompous assholes like Dobson. When they become religious murderers like Bin Laden.   When they become extremely intolerant whackjobs like Graham Jr.   When they ignore all evidence to suit their beliefs and fuck life over for the rest of us. So, lets not take into account the countless lives which are saved because of Christianity - and various other religions also. In my opinion, the ones who murder people and do horrible things in the name of their god, have always been bad people. And they use religion as an excuse. They use their god as an excuse.  It's nothing to do with religion itself. Religion does not cause war, people do. -- Posted by TigressaLynnMae at 4:04 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 So, lets not take into account the countless lives which are saved because of Christianity - and various other religions also. What about te account of the lives taken because of the religion? While you are clear 'people cause wars', the reason behind them are often religious. -- Posted by sophos at 6:06 pm on Jan. 6, 2009 In one of the pictures there, it looked as if Jesus was spooning that little girl. Indecent propagation. -- Posted by myystic at 4:39 am on Jan. 7, 2009 Quote: from obvious child at 7:41 am on Jan. 7, 2009 When they become pompous assholes like Dobson. not that i'm needling you or anything oc, but what's so morally/logically/validly incorrect about being a pompous asshole? most of those dudes are hilarious. and if we're going to call bin laden a religious murderer, then we should strongly consider what we consider 'proof', imo. -- Posted by starla91 at 6:54 am on Jan. 7, 2009 there's not much logic in anything we do. not really. we drown our sorrows in poison (aka alcohol) which obviously won't work, but we do it anyways. When we fall in love we put our happiness in the hands of someone else, where's the logic in that? things don't make sense, so why should believing in god be an excption to that?:S -- Posted by obvious child at 2:01 pm on Jan. 7, 2009 Quote: from myystic at 2:39 am on Jan. 7, 2009 but what's so morally/logically/validly incorrect about being a pompous asshole? most of those dudes are hilarious. and if we're going to call bin laden a religious murderer, then we should strongly consider what we consider 'proof', imo. Being a pompous asshole independent is bad. When one is a pompous asshole because of religion and has huge numbers of people following that person, we have a problem as those people can effect legislation making life far worse for the rest of us. Notice who I stated, Dobson. Fawell too. These are people who said that 9/11 was because of gays. Really. -- Posted by myystic at 12:54 am on Jan. 8, 2009 eh, take your point, but we're ultimately still labelling them pompous assholes such that we can get away with what we 'need' to, rather than they be the ones to have free reign. if they were to label us the same thing, we're chasing our own tail. as for blaming 9/11 on the gays - i suppose it makes some sort of sense, though it's hardly the whole story. cynically, i'm on the side of thinking it was merely done for sensationalist "look at me" value, though if it were done for actual reasons i'd largely think it'd be to do with a culture of people who believe that gays are sinners and should be burnt at the stake whilst facing mecca. this is where i often get criticised for "blaming the victim", which i largely label as irrelevant leftie garbage trying to bleed my heart out, but i stick by it. if you're going to waltz around purporting to a leaning others religiously loathe, part of me thinks it's your damned fault for being so proud about it. only nails that stick out get hammered back in, sort of thing.