Quoting Post Topic Theory regarding ADD and ADHD Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]SoHigh[/m] at 12:37 pm on June 7, 2009[quote]I'm diagnosed with ADD. I don't think I really have it, I'm just really lazy and laid back all the time.[/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post outatime Posted at 12:36 pm on June 7, 2009 At a young age I was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive.  Basically I zone out all the time.  I am really spacey and I seem out of it all the time.   I think that people with ADD are not really well understood by the medical world.  I think that this is just a personality trait rather than something that needs to be fixed.  Teachers did not know how to teach me as a child. I should not be drugged up with pills as a fix.   Our brains are not a simple chemical equation that can be balanced with a drug.  They are far more complicated than that.

Replies rstyku Posted at 3:30 pm on July 20, 2009 Quote: from uPiNsMoKe420 at 1:19 am on July 7, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 3:57 am on July 6, 2009 well its not less of an emotional state than someone who thinks differently and exhibits a different brain scan because they commonly do x activity brain scans will not differ between 2 people with different hobbies... only when they are actively doing that activity... because different activities require different parts of the brain... so shut teh fuck up All activities directly or indirectly involve all areas of the brain... Thus any difference in any area of the brain will contribute to any brain scan measurements. The brain is an interconnected system... rstyku Posted at 3:23 pm on July 20, 2009 Quote: from uPiNsMoKe420 at 7:47 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from Goddess of Judecca at 5:37 pm on June 25, 2009 Technically, ADD doesn't exist. The DSM doesn't recognise it as existing anymore. ADHD, I think, it's mostly BS. I'm sure it exists, but not nearly the way people think it does.Quote: from 534534553453 at 8:23 am on June 25, 2009 People often talk about people with ADHD not knowing whats right from wrong.  I know plenty of people that have been diagnosed with it, and whether they're on or off medication, they're perfectly normal. Generally, their social intelligence is a bit low, but otherwise they're perfectly average.     But let me ask you this....   Who has the right to state what is right and wrong in the world?   Who says that 2+2 has to be 4?   People are quick to label themselves or other people for having some sort of "disorder" simply because they don't "fit in"   But fit into what exactly?   A world full of war, hatred, greed, selfishness & propaganda?   You zone out, because thats who you are, you daydream, because thats apart of you....   You're not hyperactive..... everybody else is lazy...   See where i'm going with this?   There is no right or wrong!   "Everything" means "nothing"..... because we all perceive things differently.   Your idea of a perfect world isnt the same as someone elses idea of a perfect world. Wow. You've obviously got no idea what you're talking about.    ~Maggot No, you have no idea what you are talking about. Brain analysis using SPECT images of people with adhd show that they often have as much as 50% less blood flow in parts of the cerebellum.   I have ADHD, and no matter how hard i try, I simply cannot manage it without medication. Who says that this 50 % difference in blood flow allocation is a disorder rather than a difference? Could it even be a difference due to the persons non focus or different focus on the assigned stimulus for the measurements, could it have been a fluke. There is no repeatably observable biological characteristic to define what is called ADHD, that is why they use questionnaires. Psychiatry essentially uses backwards logic, they group personality characteristics together and call them disorders, then they look at what the unique neurological makeup  of individuals that display these "disorders" or unique personality characteristic groups, then they try and find common neurological elements (which they have never succeeded in doing and never will do). It's like this, if i am the most powerful man in the world and i say, you are crazy and every believes it because i am this powerful respected guy, then i say, it's this mushy stuff in your head that makes you crazy, then every believes me. But if i didn't say you were crazy in the first place, then no one would think there is anything wrong with all the mushy stuff in your head... It's not like, there is a definition of how a normal brain is supposed to function. It's not like the mushy stuff is supposed to be blue and ADHD peoples mushy stuff is colored red. There is simply no biological basis and there never has been since the very beginning of ADHD's invention. However, it is known that drugs cause considerable neurodamage through well established pathologies. In 1998, a Dr Jensen tried to provide evidence of a pathology, he tried to say that the mushy stuff was red and he had evidence. He said that people who have ADHD's brains have various deformities in the form of brain atrophy(smaller neurological structures and smaller brain as a whole). Then a neurologist named Dr Baughman pointed out that all of the children used in Dr Jensens study had been on chronic stimulant therapy for an average of 3 years and that Dr Jensens study was damning evidence that the medications caused people diagnosed with ADHD to develop observable brain deformities. Think about this. There is nothing observably wrong with a ADHD persons brain until they are given stimulants. People who are said to have ADHD's mushy stuff is blue, until they are treated, then it can be confirmably said to be red. The first law of medicine is "First do no harm". What are we seeing here. There is nothing observably wrong with the persons brain. The treatment for this? Observably deform the brain... rstyku Posted at 2:48 pm on July 20, 2009 Stormblazer I have a very analytical mind, and I probably understand how it affects me more than you do. For starters, I do not feel any "need" for the drugs, nor do I crave them or anything else. If I didn't remind myself every morning I'd forget to take them, and sometimes I forget anyways.   I don't notice the difference right away either - in fact, it's usually other people who have to point out the difference to me. I told you, my self-regulatory ability goes out the window, and that includes my ability to pick up on when I'm acting differently than usual. It is a common mis-conception that drug abusers take substances because of some form of craving, need or hedonistic desire for reinforcing stimulation. In many cases abusers will take drugs even when it causes them great emotional suffering due to addictive salience, a largely subconscious process which causes the person to for whatever reason feel they need to take a substance. Indeed a persons entire view of reality may be warped subtly and subconsciously, no matter how analytical or rational they think themselves and regardless of what reasons they give themselves as rationalization for their drug taking behavior, this process will be a factor in their behavior. Ritalin, adderal I only had for a relatively short time. They had little or no positive effects. My current medication is a time-release variant of concerta, low dosage. If you care to explain how that particular drug affects the brain in laymen terms, feel free to do so.   Concerta is a slow release from of methylphenidate(Ritalin). It's biological effects are almost identical. There are many misconceptions about the difference between the two drugs as little accurate information is ever dispensed about either. Firstly, Ritalin contains two isomer form of methylphenidate, one is biologically active for around 4 hours whereas the other is active for around 8 hours, depending on a persons individual metabolism the active half life may vary several hours, thus a single dose of concert which releases both isomers over an extender period may result in 24 hour dosing, multiple doses of Ritalin spread over the course of a day may also result in this effect. If you are taking a low dosage, then i guess the negative effects would be minimal short term, long-term is a role of the biological dice IMO though... Often with these types there are as you say little observable conscious effect, it doesn't seem to fix the "problem" and so is considered to be inert, often new medications are suggested and sometimes it is found that one would "work". How precise a science... Little consideration is given to psychosomatic mechanisms and general randomness of the mind and it's interaction with it's environment. Countless studies have demonstrated that stimulant medications have no lasting positive effect on the people that use them in circumstances where placebo and other common variances are accounted for. Some studies have shown temporary "benefit" in the way of grades test scores, followed shortly by a crash in academic ability, hook then sinker. Stormblazer Care to explain brain scans then? Or that the sole difference between off concerta and on it is my self-regulatory ability? I've had the good fortune to have parents who know me better than I do in many ways, and they notice changes in my behavior. I have an analytical mind, and I tend to notice when something is off barring the ADHD bit. It's a learned ability, as a result of coping with bi-polar (which I do not take medication for). I have had brain scans done, by a group with no prior knowledge of diagnosies until afterwards, that could demonstrate ADHD and it's effects, as well as other accurate behavioral information. People can see things which aren't really there is they are expecting them and as i have already mentioned, the placebo effect and general randomness of the most complex structure known to mankind interacting the second most complex structure, the mind and the world. Regardless of what brain scans you received, SPECT, fMRI etc... There is no established pathology for psychiatric illnesses, they are subjectively diagnosed, that is to say it is a matter of opinion whether someone is normal or ill, a brain scan can only reveal the unique pathology of an individual, at a given time under a certain stimulus. There is far too imprecise psychological criteria for a precise neurological pathology to be observable, the mind and the psychology of the mind is simply too complex for such a notion to find validity. Any group of people that claimed they could identify a psychiatric illness with a brain scan would be committing a fraud and would be liable for legal action. You seem to mention your analytical mind a lot, if i may comment on this, as stimulants tend to atrophy the right hemisphere(emotive) of the mind, thus shifting balance to the left hemisphere(analytical). It sounds totally ridiculous to say that analytical skills can develop from coping with "bipolar". I can think of no established line of psychiatric, psychological or neurological reasoning for this, it simply sounds like a baseless self rationalization. It's possible that any of the drugs you may have taken in "treatment" for bipolar could have caused further neurological dysfunction/toxicity which resulted in the development of a more self focused, introverted and analytical mind set. This damaging of hemispheric connections and right hemisphere function tends to erode sense of self in the 1st person and i noticed you seem to refer to yourself in the 3rd person a lot, something to think about maybe... It is unfortunate that the present psychiatric paradigm does not recognize "neurotoxicity from exposure to psychotropic medications" as a neurological disorder, as this is seriously an epidemic problem. Instead it only recognizes lots of normal people or people with conditions that could be managed with other methods of treatment as being neurologically disorders, then proceeds to psychologically confuse them into accepting chemical lobotomization. Regardless of how analytical you are, it is unlikely you will ever understand yourself or indeed be yourself until you give up the medications and focus on being happy with who you are. Although i suspect it is probably too late... I have no real stake in what you do, i am just disappointed in the present medical system, particularly psychiatry and how it is covertly toxicity the minds of a generation of children they were charged with the duty of keeping healthy. The first law of medicine is "First, do no harm" Virtually all psychiatric drugs violate that premise... uPiNsMoKe420 Posted at 7:23 am on July 10, 2009 Wtf man can you not read iconoclast Posted at 8:40 am on July 7, 2009 Why would it be attributed to different personality types? Different personality types tend to be involved in different activities, yes, but it hints a lot more at just plain ol' brain plasticity, which proves my point. uPiNsMoKe420 Posted at 4:20 am on July 7, 2009 that could be attributed to a different personality type, and im done with this topic, y'all will argue with a brick iconoclast Posted at 1:59 am on July 7, 2009 Quote: from uPiNsMoKe420 at 4:19 am on July 7, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 3:57 am on July 6, 2009 well its not less of an emotional state than someone who thinks differently and exhibits a different brain scan because they commonly do x activity brain scans will not differ between 2 people with different hobbies... only when they are actively doing that activity... because different activities require different parts of the brain... so shut teh fuck up actually not true and no need to be rude, people who are heavily involved in certain specific activities will often scan differently than people involved in others or not involved uPiNsMoKe420 Posted at 1:19 am on July 7, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 3:57 am on July 6, 2009 well its not less of an emotional state than someone who thinks differently and exhibits a different brain scan because they commonly do x activity brain scans will not differ between 2 people with different hobbies... only when they are actively doing that activity... because different activities require different parts of the brain... so shut teh fuck up Stormblazer Posted at 1:08 pm on July 6, 2009 Quote: from rstyku at 4:34 pm on June 26, 2009 Your a junkie dude and most of your problems are probably psychosomatic, the mind is a very powerful tool and a blade that cuts both ways, it can be used the purposes of self destruction and inhibition as much as it can creation and expansion. You have been programmed by propaganda to promote a perverted paradigm of how the mind works. You only "need" drugs if you feel you need them. I have a very analytical mind, and I probably understand how it affects me more than you do. For starters, I do not feel any "need" for the drugs, nor do I crave them or anything else. If I didn't remind myself every morning I'd forget to take them, and sometimes I forget anyways. I don't notice the difference right away either - in fact, it's usually other people who have to point out the difference to me. I told you, my self-regulatory ability goes out the window, and that includes my ability to pick up on when I'm acting differently than usual. Between brain atrophy, genetic chromosomal aberrations, reduced cerebral blood flow, free radicals, dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine receptor downregulation, prolactin elevation(which reduces LH/FSH hormone secretion(which reduces sperm and testosterone production(which in turn reduces dopamine receptor proliferation further(which increases prolactin secretion further, pulsatile growth hormone release inhibition(which compounds all of the above further,  adreno receptor modulation and more other demonstrable effects of Ritalin/Adderal/Desoxyn etc... Ritalin, adderal I only had for a relatively short time. They had little or no positive effects. My current medication is a time-release variant of concerta, low dosage. If you care to explain how that particular drug affects the brain in laymen terms, feel free to do so. Anyways goodlucks, statistically speaking from everything i know about physiology, psychology and neurobiology, you will need it, so do all the teens and preteens who get this crap pushed on them. Care to explain brain scans then? Or that the sole difference between off concerta and on it is my self-regulatory ability? I've had the good fortune to have parents who know me better than I do in many ways, and they notice changes in my behavior. I have an analytical mind, and I tend to notice when something is off barring the ADHD bit. It's a learned ability, as a result of coping with bi-polar (which I do not take medication for). I have had brain scans done, by a group with no prior knowledge of diagnosies until afterwards, that could demonstrate ADHD and it's effects, as well as other accurate behavioral information. iconoclast Posted at 3:57 am on July 6, 2009 well its not less of an emotional state than someone who thinks differently and exhibits a different brain scan because they commonly do x activity uPiNsMoKe420 Posted at 2:24 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 12:35 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from uPiNsMoKe420 at 12:11 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 9:17 pm on July 4, 2009 dude, people with different favorite activities will show up different on brain scans. it doesnt mean its a brain caused thing, the brain is just a manifestation of an emotional state During those activities, yes. And yes it varies from person to person, but you can't say that the majority of checkers players have less blood flow in a part of their brain. In controlled experiments it has been proven that people with adhd lack blood flow in parts of the cerebrum but often make up for it in other areas of the brain. actually people who are REALLY focused on certain activities often have higher blood flow to certain areas and corresponding less to other areas in real time, not just while playing and you gotta take into account that if ADHD is an emotional state, then while in it, theyll have less blod flow or whatever. its totally irrelevant man no, it's no really an emotional state I am adhd 99% of the time, that 1% being when i am hyperfocused, which is an adhd symptom, so if you count that then 100%.... iconoclast Posted at 12:35 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from uPiNsMoKe420 at 12:11 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 9:17 pm on July 4, 2009 dude, people with different favorite activities will show up different on brain scans. it doesnt mean its a brain caused thing, the brain is just a manifestation of an emotional state During those activities, yes. And yes it varies from person to person, but you can't say that the majority of checkers players have less blood flow in a part of their brain. In controlled experiments it has been proven that people with adhd lack blood flow in parts of the cerebrum but often make up for it in other areas of the brain. actually people who are REALLY focused on certain activities often have higher blood flow to certain areas and corresponding less to other areas in real time, not just while playing and you gotta take into account that if ADHD is an emotional state, then while in it, theyll have less blod flow or whatever. its totally irrelevant man uPiNsMoKe420 Posted at 10:07 pm on July 5, 2009 ^^^ good post And if ADD/ADHD doesn't exist, neither does anxiety, depresion, bipolar disorder, schitzophrenia,  and ocd.... insurgent Posted at 7:00 pm on July 5, 2009 ilovemyheart What makes it real? Would ADHD exist if nobody ever thought of it in the first place? ADHD is an invention, just like every other idea in the world. Something can't exist without being developed into an idea first. If ADHD was never invented.... then we wouldn't be talking about it right now. And being energetic would be an acceptable part of society A.D.H.D was not "invented," it's a label for a disorder.  (Do you even know what the word "invent" means?)  Anyway. It's actually a psychological disorder caused by a slight imbalance of the chemicals such as seratonin, epinephrin, noepinephrin, etc...you know, the chemicals near the brain stem that control hunger, moods, energy, and the like? I know for certain they both exist because I was diagnosed with A.D.D. when I was younger, and developed bipolar disorder recently.  I can't sit still whatsoever in a manic episode, and some days I'll go without sleep or run solely on two hours of sleep.  Not to mention my friend's brother was diagnosed with just A.D.H.D roughly 19 years ago.  That guy never sits still unless he's extremely blitzed (drunk and high) or asleep. That would be awesome if it was just "invented," though.  If that was so, you think maybe I could take mine to Wal-Mart and get my money back? uPiNsMoKe420 Posted at 9:11 am on July 5, 2009 Quote: from iconoclast at 9:17 pm on July 4, 2009 dude, people with different favorite activities will show up different on brain scans. it doesnt mean its a brain caused thing, the brain is just a manifestation of an emotional state During those activities, yes. And yes it varies from person to person, but you can't say that the majority of checkers players have less blood flow in a part of their brain. In controlled experiments it has been proven that people with adhd lack blood flow in parts of the cerebrum but often make up for it in other areas of the brain. Most recent 15 of 39 previous replies displayed.