Adding Reply Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic Communists Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post iceman89 Posted at 7:43 pm on July 9, 2009 are badass, agree?

Replies Mabzie Posted at 7:39 pm on July 20, 2009 So basically Anarchy? justagirl5377 Posted at 7:34 pm on July 20, 2009      Oh Dear! This seems to happen to me a lot.I write something & either the discussion continues without any referrence to my contribution,or nobody responds & the topic ends.Like Capitalism I am Blighted   justagirl5377 Posted at 5:19 am on July 16, 2009    Okay Morodin,Little Italy,Earth Junkie,& Elm.I see the origin of your confusion.You cofuse Communism withsomething that the Bolsheviks & Stalin set up in Russia & other places.In fact Stalin Lenin Mao are only one off many interpretations of Marxism or Socialism.    Marx had very little to say on on the State under a socialist or Communist government .He was certainly not a Statist as many of you use the term.Marx also had very little to say  about the dictatorship of the proletariat & the form it would take - Lenei & Stalin created what you are describing.    If socialism was not working ther would sffectively be no labour laws ,no welfare States ,free healthcare education,paid holidays coffee breaks, benefit or dole payments,trade unions etc nor would there be many of our present civil rights    Socialist theory goes back to the period of the French revolution & all the changes listed above were brought in as a consequence of pressure brought on Governments by groups of people who had a background of socialist theory.They set the ball rolling.The early Methodists ,Baptists etc were also influenced by it.     I say all this because in most of Europe [ less in the US] Socialist ideas have worked & are working.Socialim did not work in Russia or China because the entire Capitalist world made sure that those  countries [ which were essentially 3rd world countries at the time of their revolutions] could not survive.     They succeeded however in enabling all sorts of socialist legislation to occur in the US & Europe because capitalist governments feared revolts among their own populations if they did not make such provisions      Socialists do believe in civil rights.many have fought & died for them.they are just not always the same rights.eg no individual should own the basic necessities of food water air land & shelter.Those are basic human needs & should be owned by the community for the community & not the State necessarily either.They also belive in the civil rights to a living income ,work,ahouse.holidays,the 8 hour working day,health care & education.And ,importantly a fair share in the communities wealth.       As for communism not working,well the Russians were much better of under the soviet regime than they ever were under the Tsars & in within 4o years the once  3rd world nation of Russia was putting the shits up all the capitalist world.        It is not communism that doesn't work .It is Capitalism.Capitalism has raped the whole world in its greed & starved billions in the last hundred years.Its wars have killed far more than Russia ever caused under Communism.2 World Wars for a start.Then all those little 'colonial wars by the US Brit & France in the last 60 or so years        Right now billions are out of work & going hungry all over the world because of a few US capitalist financiers.Sommuch for their democratic civil rights. Not to mention the blight on the worlds enviroment by capitalist industrialisation.        So don't damn communism"socialism by pointing the bones at Stalin.You might as well damn religion because you don't like Baptists.Or damn democracy because of how it fails to work in the US        And please stop being so blinded by the TV news & your newspapers.They are merely Capitalist businesses         Forever Angel Posted at 10:30 am on July 15, 2009 Quote: from JohnTheNormalOne at 12:03 pm on July 15, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 6:03 am on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 10:54 pm on July 9, 2009 Sure works in some places. Name a few. Yugoslavia, until it fell apart, lulz. Right. JohnTheNormalOne Posted at 10:03 am on July 15, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 6:03 am on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 10:54 pm on July 9, 2009 Sure works in some places. Name a few. Yugoslavia, until it fell apart, lulz. LittleItaly Posted at 9:55 am on July 14, 2009 No lol, look what happens to the people, they suffer and are piss poor Moridin Posted at 5:05 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 2:49 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 4:42 pm on July 11, 2009 Quite a strange comment as communism is a stateless ideology in its purest form. I was speaking about in practice. On paper, if it were somehow realistic, it would be closer to a direct democracy, in a way. But yes that would be a different situation all together. Practice? You mean the dictatorship of the proletariat or? Aimforthehead Posted at 4:49 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 4:42 pm on July 11, 2009 Quite a strange comment as communism is a stateless ideology in its purest form. I was speaking about in practice. On paper, if it were somehow realistic, it would be closer to a direct democracy, in a way. But yes that would be a different situation all together. Moridin Posted at 4:42 pm on July 11, 2009 Quite a strange comment as communism is a stateless ideology in its purest form. Aimforthehead Posted at 4:36 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 1:18 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:11 am on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 9:03 pm on July 9, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 10:54 pm on July 9, 2009 Sure works in some places. Name a few.    Oh you know. Here and there.    Small communes usually. On a large scale it's pretty useless, hella efficient, but only for a short while.  What's interesting is, Communism = Capitalism.  The only single difference is the degree to which the state interferes. Economically speaking, of course. Claiming that communism is equal to capitalism is like calming that atheists who accept evolution are Christian creationists. Communism rejects private ownership and property rights, capitalism has those things as premise. As I said. All but the degree at which the state intervenes. Elm Posted at 2:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from justagirl5377 at 4:00 am on July 10, 2009 I am a communist.That is most of the posters here would say I was since they know so little about it.In fact I am a socialist.     To date in Marxist terms there have not yet been any communist societies so it is wrong to say Communism has failed   There have been many different types of Capiltalist societies .Most have been failures.American capitalism is a tragedy for the world   As a socialist I believe as follows   That all people are created equal & have the right to life liberty the persuit of happiness,a house weatherproof warm & durable,sufficient food to enable them to participate fully in society,sufficient income to participate fully in society, sufficient leisure & holidays to enjoy what society & nature offers,the right to free health care & education.The right to a job   Most socialists would agree with these   Most socialists would also agree that the basics of life - food water air land housing are too vital to be owned by individuals & should be owned by the society - not necessarily the government.   They would agree that individuals do not create wealth but groups do & that the group should share with some equity in the wealth created so that there are no very rich or very poor.   They would agree that all since all production involves large groups the profits should be owned by the large group & the enterprize owned by the the large group   Thus Capitalim = social production + private ownership+private profit   Socialism = social production = social profit + social ownweship   It is very civilized & fair.Almost Christian What is your fear - apart from ignorance You cannot believe in individual rights and be against ownership of property such as food, water and land. You cannot be rational and not believe that individuals do not create wealth. Moridin Posted at 1:18 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:11 am on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 9:03 pm on July 9, 2009 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 10:54 pm on July 9, 2009 Sure works in some places. Name a few. Oh you know. Here and there. Small communes usually. On a large scale it's pretty useless, hella efficient, but only for a short while.   What's interesting is, Communism = Capitalism.   The only single difference is the degree to which the state interferes. Economically speaking, of course. Claiming that communism is equal to capitalism is like calming that atheists who accept evolution are Christian creationists. Communism rejects private ownership and property rights, capitalism has those things as premise. Moridin Posted at 1:17 pm on July 10, 2009 Communism as a political ideology is bullshit. This is particularly noticeable with respect to their rejection of property rights. Breathtaking inanity. Laurence Posted at 6:15 am on July 10, 2009 Communism has been proven to be inadequate as an economic system. As a political system it has often brought more pain than benefit.   "badass" is such a vague term that it can be applied to anything without meaning much. justagirl5377 Posted at 4:00 am on July 10, 2009   I am a communist.That is most of the posters here would say I was since they know so little about it.In fact I am a socialist.   To date in Marxist terms there have not yet been any communist societies so it is wrong to say Communism has failed   There have been many different types of Capiltalist societies .Most have been failures.American capitalism is a tragedy for the world   As a socialist I believe as follows   That all people are created equal & have the right to life liberty the persuit of happiness,a house weatherproof warm & durable,sufficient food to enable them to participate fully in society,sufficient income to participate fully in society, sufficient leisure & holidays to enjoy what society & nature offers,the right to free health care & education.The right to a job   Most socialists would agree with these   Most socialists would also agree that the basics of life - food water air land housing are too vital to be owned by individuals & should be owned by the society - not necessarily the government.   They would agree that individuals do not create wealth but groups do & that the group should share with some equity in the wealth created so that there are no very rich or very poor.    They would agree that all since all production involves large groups the profits should be owned by the large group & the enterprize owned by the the large group     Thus Capitalim = social production + private ownership+private profit     Socialism = social production = social profit + social ownweship     It is very civilized & fair.Almost Christian What is your fear - apart from ignorance         Most recent 15 of 30 previous replies displayed.