Adding Reply Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic Christianity and evolution Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post SpM Posted at 2:04 pm on July 10, 2009 For those Christians who accept evolution, at what point in our evolutionary history do you think the soul emerged? Do you think that there is an absolute spiritual line that can be drawn between Man and the rest of the animal kingdom? Do you think God revealed Himself in some form to our distant ancestors? How do you interpret Genesis?

Replies BurningRage Posted at 11:03 am on July 12, 2009 by the fuck, moridin, you're being a bit like though police. people, although they dont have a right to deny evolution it's dues, have a right to think wwhatever they want to think as long as it doesnt contradict evidence. and from what i've seen, spirits dont contradict evidence. evidence exists of such... Forever Angel Posted at 10:52 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 6:24 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:42 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 7:36 pm on July 11, 2009 Yes, claiming to believe in the existence something is equivalent to stating that X exists unless you also state that you believe in things that obviously do not exist.   Yes, I have no problem dismissing empirical assertions based on no evidence at all. What is the empirical assertion in, "i think every living thing has a spirit though"? That's the post you are arguing about... See bold. See bold. Chasey Posted at 6:50 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:24 pm on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 12:31 pm on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:59 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.     yeah            What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?   I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit         What evidence is there for this?         But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural.  I don't need evidence to withold an idea     So you have none?     If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. No; I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Who says that my idea of a spirit isn't emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, no one knows, NO ONE has precise and exact ideas as to any of this sort of stuff, so why should I need some flimsy evidence to try and back up something that is nothing more than opinion.   I'm not getting worked up, I am simply demanding evidence for your absurd fact claims. I just love how people like you proclaim certain knowledge, then when questioned starts asserting that no one knows anything about the area in question. So hypocritical. A spirit cannot by definition be material or emergent.   spirit: 2 : a supernatural being or essence: as a capitalized : holy spirit b : soul 2a c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2 d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit   We DO KNOW a huge amount of things regarding the brain and the mind, so stop denying science. You are only embarrassing yourself.   If you do not want to support your fact claims with evidence, then stop making fact claims. Furthermore, by admitting that your fact claims are just opinions proves that there are, in fact, not supported by the evidence. What the hell, yes you are getting worked up. What does this even matter to you ?   I didn't even say anything about what I think being fact. If anything I emphasised the concept that it is no more than opinion and idea, which I don't need evidence for. I don't fucking care what you think, I'm entitled to an opinion without people shoving science down my throat. Stop trying to make yourself look big. I didn't even state what MY idea of a spirit is, so you don't even have any grounds to try and argue with me over this. Moridin Posted at 4:24 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:42 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 7:36 pm on July 11, 2009 Yes, claiming to believe in the existence something is equivalent to stating that X exists unless you also state that you believe in things that obviously do not exist.    Yes, I have no problem dismissing empirical assertions based on no evidence at all. What is the empirical assertion in, "i think every living thing has a spirit though"? That's the post you are arguing about... See bold. Moridin Posted at 4:24 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 12:31 pm on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:59 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.     yeah           What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?    I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit       What evidence is there for this?       But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural.   I don't need evidence to withold an idea    So you have none?    If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. No; I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Who says that my idea of a spirit isn't emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, no one knows, NO ONE has precise and exact ideas as to any of this sort of stuff, so why should I need some flimsy evidence to try and back up something that is nothing more than opinion. I'm not getting worked up, I am simply demanding evidence for your absurd fact claims. I just love how people like you proclaim certain knowledge, then when questioned starts asserting that no one knows anything about the area in question. So hypocritical. A spirit cannot by definition be material or emergent. spirit: 2 : a supernatural being or essence: as a capitalized : holy spirit b : soul 2a c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2 d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit We DO KNOW a huge amount of things regarding the brain and the mind, so stop denying science. You are only embarrassing yourself. If you do not want to support your fact claims with evidence, then stop making fact claims. Furthermore, by admitting that your fact claims are just opinions proves that there are, in fact, not supported by the evidence. Chasey Posted at 2:31 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:59 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.           yeah    What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?       I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit   What evidence is there for this?   But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural.    I don't need evidence to withold an idea So you have none? If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. No; I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Who says that my idea of a spirit isn't emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, no one knows, NO ONE has precise and exact ideas as to any of this sort of stuff, so why should I need some flimsy evidence to try and back up something that is nothing more than opinion. Forever Angel Posted at 5:42 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 7:36 pm on July 11, 2009 Yes, claiming to believe in the existence something is equivalent to stating that X exists unless you also state that you believe in things that obviously do not exist. Yes, I have no problem dismissing empirical assertions based on no evidence at all. What is the empirical assertion in, "i think every living thing has a spirit though"? That's the post you are arguing about... Moridin Posted at 5:36 pm on July 11, 2009 Yes, claiming to believe in the existence something is equivalent to stating that X exists unless you also state that you believe in things that obviously do not exist. Yes, I have no problem dismissing empirical assertions based on no evidence at all. Forever Angel Posted at 5:30 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 7:17 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:12 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 6:59 pm on July 11, 2009 If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. Are you equating the members of LiveWire to boxes of cereal?  And that no one should have an opinion or an idea that hasn't be empirically proven? He made no claim, he only stated a belief. No, I am saying that if you are not interested in a rational discussion, claiming that something is true and then ignoring skeptical quests and demands for evidence is just as insane as telling a box of cereal that your favorite color is blue (or some other nonsensical action). No, I am saying that no one should state something as fact regarding the empirical world without evidence if they wish to remain rational. Beliefs are fact claims. If I claim that I believe in the existence of X, I am stating that I am convinced that X exists. Then it is perfectly legitimate to ask what evidence that person bases his conviction on. If there is no evidence, we can dismiss his claim. Stating a belief has nothing to do with fact claims. If you are going to challenge every statement of belief, you have a lot of challenges to make... And how can you dismiss someone's belief of something? You may not believe the same thing, you may even disbelieve, but that will not change whether or not they believe. Moridin Posted at 5:17 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:12 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 6:59 pm on July 11, 2009 If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. Are you equating the members of LiveWire to boxes of cereal?   And that no one should have an opinion or an idea that hasn't be empirically proven? He made no claim, he only stated a belief. No, I am saying that if you are not interested in a rational discussion, claiming that something is true and then ignoring skeptical quests and demands for evidence is just as insane as telling a box of cereal that your favorite color is blue (or some other nonsensical action). No, I am saying that no one should state something as fact regarding the empirical world without evidence if they wish to remain rational. Beliefs are fact claims. If I claim that I believe in the existence of X, I am stating that I am convinced that X exists. Then it is perfectly legitimate to ask what evidence that person bases his conviction on. If there is no evidence, we can dismiss his claim. Forever Angel Posted at 5:12 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 6:59 pm on July 11, 2009 If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. Are you equating the members of LiveWire to boxes of cereal? And that no one should have an opinion or an idea that hasn't be empirically proven? He made no claim, he only stated a belief. Moridin Posted at 4:59 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.    yeah       What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?   I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit    What evidence is there for this?    But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural. I don't need evidence to withold an idea So you have none? If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue. Chasey Posted at 4:46 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.       yeah   What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?    I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit What evidence is there for this? But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural. I don't need evidence to withold an idea Moridin Posted at 4:29 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.   yeah    What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to? I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit What evidence is there for this? But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural. Moridin Posted at 4:28 pm on July 11, 2009 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009 Quote: from Chasey at 5:05 pm on July 10, 2009 i think every living thing has a spirit though Damn you I know there's a name for that but I can't think of it. Now that's going to annoy me till I figure it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism Most recent 15 of 25 previous replies displayed.