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Quote: from Forgot My Name at 2:26 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from CrackerJax at 5:21 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from Forgot My Name at 12:44 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from CrackerJax at 3:41 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from Kysha at 12:41 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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IQ: Intelligence Quotient?

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   Basically this.

   Measure of your intelligence level.

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What is intelligence?

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  How SMART you are.

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Smart in what way?

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*sigh* see below link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient

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According to 52 internationally known scholars that with degrees in fields of or related to intelligence and represented by various universities accross the country:

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Intelligence is a very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings -- "catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do.
...
Intelligence, so defined, can be measured, and intelligence tests measure it well. They are among the most accurate (in technical terms, reliable and valid) of all psychological tests and assessments. They do not measure creativity, character, personality, or other important differences among individuals, nor are they intended to.

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Any definition can be disagreed with and various constructs we use daily don't have unanimous definitions - but we still carry on and use them often.

IQ isn't everything, neither is intelligence, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Just because we cannot agree on a definition of intelligence doesn't mean it's not a useful concept.

Any definition can be disagreed with and various constructs we use daily don't have unanimous definitions - but we still carry on and use them often.

IQ isn't everything, neither is intelligence, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.

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Quote: from kidd rune at 5:44 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Just because we cannot agree on a definition of intelligence doesn't mean it's not a useful concept.  

 Any definition can be disagreed with and various constructs we use daily don't have unanimous definitions - but we still carry on and use them often.  

 IQ isn't everything, neither is intelligence, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.

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In my eyes there are two types of people when it comes to intelligence; Mentally Retarded people and normal people, who can be smart or dumb it all depends on what they think of themselves. IQ has no purpose, it does not tell how creative someone is or how successful in life someone is. The way you use it, is the exact way Alfred Binet didn't want it to be used.

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IQ is the MEASURE of intelligence. Most people don't even know their own number.

Creative, dumb, and successful are three COMPLETELY different things. There's no comparison.

-------
CrackWaffles
-Molly/17-
Message me for my AIM, MSN & Yahoo

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IQ has no purpose, it does not tell how creative someone is or how successful in life someone is.

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IQ is not meant to measure creativity nor is creativity the only important aspect of a person's life.

It is not meant to tell you how successful you are, nor is it the only aspect in a person's life.

But, FMN, there IS some correlation between financial success and IQ.
As studies by me and Jake showed, higher IQ'd people have higher incomes even when numerous factors are taken into account. Children with higher IQ's usually make the most.

Higher IQ'd societies tend to be more successful.
Compare Europe and East Asia to Africa and you will see this.
There is a strong correlation between national IQ and GDP per capita.

IQ measures various skills that are required in life. People with better decision making and problem solving skills are generally more successful in life than those who lack these skills. A low-IQ is a disadvantage in life and a to a society. It is not meant to assign worth to a human, you're taking it way out of context.

IQ is not meant to determine what we will do in life or how successful we can be but it isn't mean to. It can estimate the likely success and effects of pursuing our goals in life though. It can only estimate and predict and guess. Prediction is a gold standard in science - just beacuse IQ doesn't fully equate to human worth, success, or greatness doesn't mean it's not useful.

If IQ doesn't measure anything important why does it help predict success so well?

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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FMN:

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IQ has no purpose, it does not tell how creative someone is or how successful in life someone is.

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It is not meant to tell you this so why would anyone expect it to?

IQ is not meant to measure creativity nor is creativity the only important aspect of a person's life.

It is not meant to tell you how successful you are, nor is it the only aspect in a person's life.

But, FMN, there IS some correlation between financial success and IQ.
As studies by me and Jake showed, higher IQ'd people have higher incomes even when numerous factors are taken into account. Children with higher IQ's usually make the most.

Higher IQ'd societies tend to be more successful.
Compare Europe and East Asia to Africa and you will see this.
There is a strong correlation between national IQ and GDP per capita.

IQ measures various skills that are required in life. People with better decision making and problem solving skills are generally more successful in life than those who lack these skills. A low-IQ is a disadvantage in life and a to a society. It is not meant to assign worth to a human, you're taking it way out of context.

IQ is not meant to determine what we will do in life or how successful we can be but it isn't mean to. It can estimate the likely success and effects of pursuing our goals in life though. It can only estimate and predict and guess. Prediction is a gold standard in science - just beacuse IQ doesn't fully equate to human worth, success, or greatness doesn't mean it's not useful.

If IQ doesn't measure anything important why does it help predict success so well?

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Well said.

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CrackWaffles
-Molly/17-
Message me for my AIM, MSN & Yahoo

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Quote: from Forgot My Name at 2:53 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from kidd rune at 5:44 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Just because we cannot agree on a definition of intelligence doesn't mean it's not a useful concept.

  Any definition can be disagreed with and various constructs we use daily don't have unanimous definitions - but we still carry on and use them often.

  IQ isn't everything, neither is intelligence, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.

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 In my eyes there are two types of people when it comes to intelligence; Mentally Retarded people and normal people, who can be smart or dumb it all depends on what they think of themselves. IQ has no purpose, it does not tell how creative someone is or how successful in life someone is. The way you use it, is the exact way Alfred Binet didn't want it to be used.

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IQ is the MEASURE of intelligence. Most people don't even know their own number.

Creative, dumb, and successful are three COMPLETELY different things. There's no comparison.

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IQ at least compares you to other people and can use facts and statistics - though they aren't perfect and nobody says they are.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Quote: from CrackerJax at 6:03 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from Forgot My Name at 2:53 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Quote: from kidd rune at 5:44 pm on Nov. 4, 2009

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Just because we cannot agree on a definition of intelligence doesn't mean it's not a useful concept.    

  Any definition can be disagreed with and various constructs we use daily don't have unanimous definitions - but we still carry on and use them often.    

  IQ isn't everything, neither is intelligence, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.

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  In my eyes there are two types of people when it comes to intelligence; Mentally Retarded people and normal people, who can be smart or dumb it all depends on what they think of themselves. IQ has no purpose, it does not tell how creative someone is or how successful in life someone is. The way you use it, is the exact way Alfred Binet didn't want it to be used.

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 IQ is the MEASURE of intelligence. Most people don't even know their own number.  

 Creative, dumb, and successful are three COMPLETELY different things. There's no comparison.

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We must also remember that the threshold between creative and not-creative, dumb and intelligent, and successful and unsuccesful are arbitrary.
One person might think that his teacher is intelligent but another student could say he's an idiot.
Who's right?

IQ at least compares you to other people and can use facts and statistics - though they aren't perfect and nobody says they are.

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Good point.

In a technical sense, you could take intelligence tests, and get a scientific number.

But it's also human nature to have different opinions on what smart is.

-------
CrackWaffles
-Molly/17-
Message me for my AIM, MSN & Yahoo

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IQ is the MEASURE of intelligence. Most people don't even know their own number.

Creative, dumb, and successful are three COMPLETELY different things. There's no comparison.

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Creativity is pretty much just another form of intelligence that most people seem to ignore.

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"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations."

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FMN:

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IQ has no purpose, it does not tell how creative someone is or how successful in life someone is.

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It is not meant to tell you this so why would anyone expect it to?

IQ is not meant to measure creativity nor is creativity the only important aspect of a person's life.

It is not meant to tell you how successful you are, nor is it the only aspect in a person's life.

But, FMN, there IS some correlation between financial success and IQ.
As studies by me and Jake showed, higher IQ'd people have higher incomes even when numerous factors are taken into account. Children with higher IQ's usually make the most.

Higher IQ'd societies tend to be more successful.
Compare Europe and East Asia to Africa and you will see this.
There is a strong correlation between national IQ and GDP per capita.

IQ measures various skills that are required in life. People with better decision making and problem solving skills are generally more successful in life than those who lack these skills. A low-IQ is a disadvantage in life and a to a society. It is not meant to assign worth to a human, you're taking it way out of context.

IQ is not meant to determine what we will do in life or how successful we can be but it isn't mean to. It can estimate the likely success and effects of pursuing our goals in life though. It can only estimate and predict and guess. Prediction is a gold standard in science - just beacuse IQ doesn't fully equate to human worth, success, or greatness doesn't mean it's not useful.

If IQ doesn't measure anything important why does it help predict success so well?

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First of all, Correlation does not imply causation. Just because countries with high IQs are successful does not mean that countries with low IQs can't be.

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High intelligence helps you get to a profession, it doesn't make you successful. You have somewhat said the same thing, but contradicted yourself, by saying countries with higher IQs are more successful than low IQ ones.

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People with savant syndrome score very low of IQ test, but yet they can compute numbers just as well as a computer. So I would think they have a pretty high intelligence in one area. IQ only predicts school achievement and academic problem-solving.

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Those with Savant syndrome have high levels of intelligence in one or a few fields.
IQ is meant to measure "the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience" and it does it well.
Of course that is not every skill imaginable, as I said.

IQ tests should be looked at for populations more than individuals. IQ is a more accurate prediction at the population scale.
For example: IT's more likely that a hypothetical population with an IQ average of 105 is more successful (in general) than a population with 95 as opposed to a person with a 105 IQ compared to one with a 95.

IQ is a much better measure when looking at populations - that's why it's often used as evidence for group differences.
I think SAT is a better predictor of personal intelligence.

We cannot deny averages and statistics though, FMN. They are meaningful even though they aren't meant to be a standard you are born to meet.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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That is not what IQ is meant to mean, do you not read the posts in your own thread?

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As for the correlation doesn't imply causation, I agree.
But the thing is - so many correlations have absolutely no alternate explanations (Such as why the Minnesota transracial adoption study mulattoes score in between Whites and Blacks although they are personally and socially defined as "Black" and given the same environment).

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Nowhere do I see a contradiction, you're making that up.
A high IQ doesn't mean you're successful and a low IQ doesn't mean you aren't. But there are statistics you cannot ignore.

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Intelligence is not computing numbers, sir.

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Those with Savant syndrome have high levels of intelligence in one or a few fields.
IQ is meant to measure "the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience" and it does it well.
Of course that is not every skill imaginable, as I said.

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IQ tests should be looked at for populations more than individuals. IQ is a more accurate prediction at the population scale.
For example: IT's more likely that a hypothetical population with an IQ average of 105 is more successful (in general) than a population with 95 as opposed to a person with a 105 IQ compared to one with a 95.

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IQ is a much better measure when looking at populations - that's why it's often used as evidence for group differences.
I think SAT is a better predictor of personal intelligence.

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"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations."

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Is that not what you just said? Now you are again contradicting yourself.

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Just because a country has a high IQ doesn't mean it will be successful but it's ignorant to deny that whatever IQ measures seems to help countries and populations be successful.

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Just because we don't have an alternate explanation, doesn't mean it does not exist. I really don't think you know what that statement really means.

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You say how IQ isn't meant to predict how successful one is in life, but yet you said something to the nature of how western societies who have higher IQs are more successful than places like Africa who have lower IQs. I don't even think IQ should be in that kind of discussion.

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Western socieites are more successful than sub-Saharan African societies and the IQ difference is about 2 standard deviations.

Of course a lot of it is due to poverty and malnutrition and other problems in Africa but it still shows that high-IQ socities are generally more successful than low-IQ societies.

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So someone good at math isn't intelligent? Again, you are ignoring different types of intelligence.

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Intelligence is not a measure of one narrow skill but of many. Just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at everything. IQ is meant to measure general intelligence.

If you excel in one field but fail in others that will affect your success in most cases unless you can obtain a simple carrer that only takes on skill.

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IQ measures Analytical intelligence (academic problem-solving)

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http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/114801813/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

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That's an assumption, and once again you are labeling people.

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SAT is based on academic knowledge, and really doesn't have anything to do with general intelligence.

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"Meredith C. Frey and Douglas K. Detterman, researchers at Case Western Reserve University, have shown that students' SAT test scores correlate as highly as, and sometimes higher than, IQ tests correlate with each other. This is strong evidence that the SAT is a de facto intelligence test. Their findings will be published in the June issue of Psychological Science, a journal of the American Psychological Society."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060509083748/scienceblog.com/cms/node/2297

The claim that SAT is highly g loaded is also supported by TR Coyle and DR Pillow (2008) in "SAT and ACT predict college GPA after removing g"

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"