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There is absolutely no evidence to suggest the numbers are symbolic for anything. That is a typical tactic used by the religious when their text is under siege. Until you can provide evidence for the claim that the numbers are symbolic, you have an empty case.

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Actually, there is quite a bit of evidence. Look up "symbolism in ancient Jewish literature" or, frankly, "symbolism + numbers" and see what you find. This isn't a typical tactic; this is just cold hard facts. If you don't want to accept them, that's your choice, but just know that you're wrong.

Quote: from Ravenous Notion at 4:13 am on May 5, 2009

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The Bible is "God Inspired." There should be no difficulty tracing genealogies. The Bible does state the age of the earth. It is easily countable by looking at the genealogies, which are not gaping, and not "symbolic." If the genealogies are symbolic, than so is god.

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Unless, of course, the genealogies weren't meant to be taken literally. And no, you don't seem to understand literature at all, do you? I mean, by your standards, a history book that included the legend of Paul Bunyan should be entirely discounted because Paul Bunyan never existed, which is just plain stupid.

This is a pet peeve of mine. People assume that the Bible is all one genre, that genre being "FACTUAL HISTORY AND SCIENCE." And it's not. Genesis is written nearly entirely as mythology, there are a good several books smack dab in the middle that are poetry (Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon), Leviticus is written as law, several books are written as prophecy, nearly the entire New Testament is comprised of teaching letters, etc. No part of the Bible was written as "literal scientific text" and very few parts of the Bible were written as "literal historical text."

You want evidence? Read the book for yourself; it's as plain as the words on this page.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

Christians that claim homosexuality is bad and then state that the bible says it is need to realize. The bible also says: Don't eat crustaceans (creatures of the sea that do not swim with fins or breathe with gills), Don't have sex out of wedlock, don't have sex with a woman on her period, don't eat pork, etc. (look in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; Those books are full of laws)

However, the cool thing is that they DON'T MATTER! Jesus died for our sins. Homosexuality is one of them.

(sorry if this wasn't on the current strain of the topic, but i have friends who are gay. Even though I am not gay I do believe that they catch crap that they don't deserve)

Post edited at 3:58 pm on May 29, 2009 by Loiosh

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Everyone starts off with a Full bag of Luck and an Empty Bag of Experience
The key is to fill the Experience bag before your luck runs out

For example, say abortion. Christians find it immoral and wrong to abort an unborn baby. Though it may not sound very beneficial, but it's a decision made for a greater good for the person making the decision.

Take stem cell research off that for another example. Christians think it immoral to research on a subject like this. Though this is a prime example where it could be for good.

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So?

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I can see how sometimes that would be quite annoying, yet, it could still come up in some very major scientific topics. You see, religion is all about morals. Christians have very exclusive morals and find many scientific discoveries "immoral" even though they may be overall good for the human race.  

For example, say abortion. Christians find it immoral and wrong to abort an unborn baby. Though it may not sound very beneficial, but it's a decision made for a greater good for the person making the decision.

Take stem cell research off that for another example. Christians think it immoral to research on a subject like this. Though this is a prime example where it could be for good.

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Quote: from bstodge at 11:35 pm on May 29, 2009

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I can see how sometimes that would be quite annoying, yet, it could still come up in some very major scientific topics. You see, religion is all about morals. Christians have very exclusive morals and find many scientific discoveries "immoral" even though they may be overall good for the human race.

 For example, say abortion. Christians find it immoral and wrong to abort an unborn baby. Though it may not sound very beneficial, but it's a decision made for a greater good for the person making the decision.  

 Take stem cell research off that for another example. Christians think it immoral to research on a subject like this. Though this is a prime example where it could be for good.

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they find that anything that they don't like they call it immoral. they'd probably call 311 immoral if they didn't like them.

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Hence, any rational human should be agnostic. If you find this kind of stuff interesting read Why I am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell. I found it extremely interesting.

If you're a Christian and read it, it'll probably change your views.

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So?

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Quote: from BleedingSteelWings at 9:01 am on May 30, 2009

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Quote: from bstodge at 11:35 pm on May 29, 2009

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I can see how sometimes that would be quite annoying, yet, it could still come up in some very major scientific topics. You see, religion is all about morals. Christians have very exclusive morals and find many scientific discoveries "immoral" even though they may be overall good for the human race.    

  For example, say abortion. Christians find it immoral and wrong to abort an unborn baby. Though it may not sound very beneficial, but it's a decision made for a greater good for the person making the decision.

  Take stem cell research off that for another example. Christians think it immoral to research on a subject like this. Though this is a prime example where it could be for good.

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 they find that anything that they don't like they call it immoral. they'd probably call 311 immoral if they didn't like them.

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Hence, any rational human should be agnostic. If you find this kind of stuff interesting read Why I am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell. I found it extremely interesting.  

If you're a Christian and read it, it'll probably change your views.

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Quote: from BleedingSteelWings at 9:01 am on May 30, 2009

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they find that anything that they don't like they call it immoral. they'd probably call 311 immoral if they didn't like them.

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Hence, any rational human should be agnostic. If you find this kind of stuff interesting read Why I am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell. I found it extremely interesting.  

If you're a Christian and read it, it'll probably change your views.

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I'm sorry, I'm not seeing how that's an argument for agnosticism, only how it's an argument against using your faith to suit your own means.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after