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 LiveWire Humor
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Moridin
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Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:12 am on July 12, 2009
 Quote: from Moridin at 6:59 pm on July 11, 2009
If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue.
Are you equating the members of LiveWire to boxes of cereal? And that no one should have an opinion or an idea that hasn't be empirically proven? He made no claim, he only stated a belief.
No, I am saying that if you are not interested in a rational discussion, claiming that something is true and then ignoring skeptical quests and demands for evidence is just as insane as telling a box of cereal that your favorite color is blue (or some other nonsensical action). No, I am saying that no one should state something as fact regarding the empirical world without evidence if they wish to remain rational. Beliefs are fact claims. If I claim that I believe in the existence of X, I am stating that I am convinced that X exists. Then it is perfectly legitimate to ask what evidence that person bases his conviction on. If there is no evidence, we can dismiss his claim.
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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
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Forever Angel
Pectus Pectoris Memor
 Sustainer
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Quote: from Moridin at 7:17 pm on July 11, 2009
Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:12 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 6:59 pm on July 11, 2009
If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue.
Are you equating the members of LiveWire to boxes of cereal? And that no one should have an opinion or an idea that hasn't be empirically proven? He made no claim, he only stated a belief.
No, I am saying that if you are not interested in a rational discussion, claiming that something is true and then ignoring skeptical quests and demands for evidence is just as insane as telling a box of cereal that your favorite color is blue (or some other nonsensical action). No, I am saying that no one should state something as fact regarding the empirical world without evidence if they wish to remain rational. Beliefs are fact claims. If I claim that I believe in the existence of X, I am stating that I am convinced that X exists. Then it is perfectly legitimate to ask what evidence that person bases his conviction on. If there is no evidence, we can dismiss his claim.
Stating a belief has nothing to do with fact claims. If you are going to challenge every statement of belief, you have a lot of challenges to make... And how can you dismiss someone's belief of something? You may not believe the same thing, you may even disbelieve, but that will not change whether or not they believe.
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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Bohica
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Chasey
Chillin like a panda villain.
 Patron
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Quote: from Moridin at 12:59 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009
Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009
i think every living thing has a spirit though
What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.
yeah
What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?
I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit
What evidence is there for this? But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural.
I don't need evidence to withold an idea
So you have none? If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue.
No; I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Who says that my idea of a spirit isn't emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, no one knows, NO ONE has precise and exact ideas as to any of this sort of stuff, so why should I need some flimsy evidence to try and back up something that is nothing more than opinion.
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2:31 am on July 12, 2009 | Joined: Sep. 2008 | Days Active: 329
Join to learn more about Chasey England, United Kingdom | Straight Male | Posts: 25,312 | Points: 31,549
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Moridin
Guru
Ad Free
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Quote: from Chasey at 12:31 pm on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:59 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009
Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009
i think every living thing has a spirit though
What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.
yeah
What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?
I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit
What evidence is there for this? But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural.
I don't need evidence to withold an idea
So you have none? If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue.
No; I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Who says that my idea of a spirit isn't emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, no one knows, NO ONE has precise and exact ideas as to any of this sort of stuff, so why should I need some flimsy evidence to try and back up something that is nothing more than opinion.
I'm not getting worked up, I am simply demanding evidence for your absurd fact claims. I just love how people like you proclaim certain knowledge, then when questioned starts asserting that no one knows anything about the area in question. So hypocritical. A spirit cannot by definition be material or emergent. spirit: 2 : a supernatural being or essence: as a capitalized : holy spirit b : soul 2a c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2 d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit We DO KNOW a huge amount of things regarding the brain and the mind, so stop denying science. You are only embarrassing yourself. If you do not want to support your fact claims with evidence, then stop making fact claims. Furthermore, by admitting that your fact claims are just opinions proves that there are, in fact, not supported by the evidence.
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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
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Chasey
Chillin like a panda villain.
Patron
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Quote: from Moridin at 12:24 pm on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 12:31 pm on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:59 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 2:46 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:29 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 2:23 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Moridin at 12:20 am on July 12, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 4:56 pm on July 11, 2009
Quote: from Stormblazer at 10:27 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Chasey at 3:05 pm on July 10, 2009
i think every living thing has a spirit though
What would that be? By living things you're including everything from single-celled organisms such as bacteria all the way up through humans.
yeah
What is the evidence for the claim that every organism has a spirit? Do viruses have spirit (viruses are not alive)? How about megaviruses that are larger and have more genetic material than bacteria? Do they have a spirit? When you say "spirit" what exactly are you referring to?
I believe any conscious being with emotions, thoughts and feelings has a spirit
What evidence is there for this? But all of those properties are just emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, nothing to do with spirits or the supernatural.
I don't need evidence to withold an idea
So you have none? If you want to be rational, you ought to present empirical evidence for empirical claims. Otherwise you discussing your ideas is just as rational as yelling at a box of cereals that your favorite color is blue.
No; I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Who says that my idea of a spirit isn't emergent properties of matter in certain configurations, no one knows, NO ONE has precise and exact ideas as to any of this sort of stuff, so why should I need some flimsy evidence to try and back up something that is nothing more than opinion.
I'm not getting worked up, I am simply demanding evidence for your absurd fact claims. I just love how people like you proclaim certain knowledge, then when questioned starts asserting that no one knows anything about the area in question. So hypocritical. A spirit cannot by definition be material or emergent. spirit: 2 : a supernatural being or essence: as a capitalized : holy spirit b : soul 2a c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2 d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit We DO KNOW a huge amount of things regarding the brain and the mind, so stop denying science. You are only embarrassing yourself. If you do not want to support your fact claims with evidence, then stop making fact claims. Furthermore, by admitting that your fact claims are just opinions proves that there are, in fact, not supported by the evidence.
What the hell, yes you are getting worked up. What does this even matter to you ?
I didn't even say anything about what I think being fact. If anything I emphasised the concept that it is no more than opinion and idea, which I don't need evidence for.
I don't fucking care what you think, I'm entitled to an opinion without people shoving science down my throat. Stop trying to make yourself look big. I didn't even state what MY idea of a spirit is, so you don't even have any grounds to try and argue with me over this. Post edited at 6:53 am on July 12, 2009 by Chasey
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6:50 am on July 12, 2009 | Joined: Sep. 2008 | Days Active: 329
Join to learn more about Chasey England, United Kingdom | Straight Male | Posts: 25,312 | Points: 31,549
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BurningRage
Technician
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by the fuck, moridin, you're being a bit like though police. people, although they dont have a right to deny evolution it's dues, have a right to think wwhatever they want to think as long as it doesnt contradict evidence.
and from what i've seen, spirits dont contradict evidence. evidence exists of such...
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I'm a Carnivore.
Because my body isnt in a graveyard (anytime soon). lol
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