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Technically, ADD doesn't exist. The DSM doesn't recognise it as existing anymore. ADHD, I think, it's mostly BS. I'm sure it exists, but not nearly the way people think it does.Quote: from 534534553453 at 8:23 am on June 25, 2009

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People often talk about people with ADHD not knowing whats right from wrong.  

I know plenty of people that have been diagnosed with it, and whether they're on or off medication, they're perfectly normal. Generally, their social intelligence is a bit low, but otherwise they're perfectly average.

 But let me ask you this....  

 Who has the right to state what is right and wrong in the world?  

 Who says that 2+2 has to be 4?  

 People are quick to label themselves or other people for having some sort of "disorder" simply because they don't "fit in"  

 But fit into what exactly?  

 A world full of war, hatred, greed, selfishness & propaganda?  

 You zone out, because thats who you are, you daydream, because thats apart of you....  

 You're not hyperactive..... everybody else is lazy...  

 See where i'm going with this?  

 There is no right or wrong!  

 "Everything" means "nothing"..... because we all perceive things differently.  

 Your idea of a perfect world isnt the same as someone elses idea of a perfect world.

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Wow. You've obviously got no idea what you're talking about.

~Maggot

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Please tell me anything in my post that is wrong?

Depending on a kids own resistance to the neurotoxic effects of amphetamine like substances will determine how well they fair in developing tolerance and getting a permanently neurodamaged central nervous system.

Often kids who suffer neurodamage from these drugs take the effects of the substance (worse attention, lower intelligence, all other manner of subtle retardation's) as confirmation that there is something wrong with them.

Still other kids, will develop a depressive condition due to the inverse tolerance effect the substance on the neurotransmitter systems, that is the desensitization of a person to their own chemical impulses, due to the raising of the levels of these chemical impulses to supra physiological levels.

Then they may end up taking all manner of other psychotropics to "fix" this "new" condition.

When infact anti-depressant drugs are almost chemically identical to amphetamines and will only compound the damage.

Furthermore a Dr Baughman has demonstrated that Ritalin, Adderal, Desoxyn etc... cause brain atrophy(shrinkage), particularly of the Corpus Collosum which connects the two hemispheres and the right hemisphere of the brain which is responsible for emotive think and creativity.

I spoke to a professor who is the head of the Medical Law and Ethics department at Lincoln university here in England who said that this was due to the inhibition of calcium(or potassium) ions in the brain which causes brain cell death.

Post edited at 3:40 pm on June 26, 2009 by rstyku

It should not be referred to as being actual, it should only be referred to as i have defined it above.

In 1998 the NIH held a 3-day conference on ADHD titled; ADHD is it a disease or isn't it?

To cut a long story short, at the end of the conference they released this quote in their consensus statement:

"We do not have a valid test for ADHD and there is no data to indicate that it is due to brain malfunction"

Ironic that they still refer to it as an entity, in their admission that it does not exist.

Hyperkinetic syndrome probably exists, which is a where a child really can't stay still, and is more of a neuromotor function disorder than the subjective psychological entity that ADHD is.

ADHD is the "treating" of a personality, not a brain disease and i suspect at some great cost to many individuals mental and physical health and society as a whole, even if the individuals and society does not and may not ever realize it...

At the heart of this debate lies a fundamental philosophical issue, rather than a moral one, it pertains to the question of what consciousness is, what the mind is and what a valid treatment for these undefinables really would be and when it could be appropriate.

On the moral side of the issue however we can ask is it acceptable to medicate a personality, by causing damage to the central nervous system?

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I hope I don't offend you, but I think your outlook on your ADHD is exactly why you can't use your full potential. I have ADHD myself, and although I do find myself lazy and have a very hard time paying attention sometimes. I do have potential if I try hard enough. I think you need to stop relying on pills to solve your problems because you're basically saying that you're useless unless your drugged. That stuff does change your personality. I've been on many ADHD drugs as a child and have even hallucinated for days from it. I don't agree with the drugs because kids will think that they can't do anything right without it and I think that can affect self-esteem.

Hey, if I can do it, you can too. I think you're better then this.

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Quote: from D Y L A N at 11:29 am on June 21, 2009

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I hope I don't offend you, but I think your outlook on your ADHD is exactly why you can't use your full potential. I have ADHD myself, and although I do find myself lazy and have a very hard time paying attention sometimes. I do have potential if I try hard enough. I think you need to stop relying on pills to solve your problems because you're basically saying that you're useless unless your drugged. That stuff does change your personality. I've been on many ADHD drugs as a child and have even hallucinated for days from it. I don't agree with the drugs because kids will think that they can't do anything right without it and I think that can affect self-esteem.

Hey, if I can do it, you can too. I think you're better then this.

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Strongly disagree. After years of trying different medications I've found ones that don't mess up my personality. Off them, the only truly noticable difference is a lack of self regulatory control. As much as I'd like to not be reliant on them, that's the truth.  
:5800:

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Your a junkie dude and most of your problems are probably psychosomatic, the mind is a very powerful tool and a blade that cuts both ways, it can be used the purposes of self destruction and inhibition as much as it can creation and expansion.

You have been programmed by propaganda to promote a perverted paradigm of how the mind works.

You only "need" drugs if you feel you need them.

Between brain atrophy, genetic chromosomal aberrations, reduced cerebral blood flow, free radicals, dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine receptor downregulation, prolactin elevation(which reduces LH/FSH hormone secretion(which reduces sperm and testosterone production(which in turn reduces dopamine receptor proliferation further(which increases prolactin secretion further, pulsatile growth hormone release inhibition(which compounds all of the above further, adreno receptor modulation and more other demonstrable effects of Ritalin/Adderal/Desoxyn etc...

I could go on forever because there is no a single system in the body that these drugs don't permanently affect the balance of in what could only be described as a negative way and the interconnected complexity of the human body(especially the brain) is greater than could ever be fully described.

These drugs are potent, so is the strength of the human bodies natural homeostatic mechanism fortunately, the body will always try to preserve balance.

I would not like to take my chances that i am somehow immune to the potential for massively reduced quality of health and life however.

I also would not take my chances that i would somehow recognize the subtle and cumulative mental and physical impair that may be inflicted on me.

An interesting facet of human psychology, is it's egocentric bias, that is it's limited scope of itself and the complexity of the systems in which it exists.

When it comes to drugs, if one lost some aspects of mental function, it would be near impossible to become aware of it.

If one loses some emotional/mental function for example, the ability to recall emotion/cognition would also be lost along with the loss of present emotionality, so one would not have any "notes" to compare ones present emotional state to.

One can only recall information within the minds present ability to process it.

Anyways goodlucks, statistically speaking from everything i know about physiology, psychology and neurobiology, you will need it, so do all the teens and preteens who get this crap pushed on them.

Post edited at 3:37 pm on June 26, 2009 by rstyku

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A.D.D. and A.D.H.D are very real.

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What makes it real?

Would ADHD exist if nobody ever thought of it in the first place?

ADHD is an invention, just like every other idea in the world.

Something can't exist without being developed into an idea first.

If ADHD was never invented.... then we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

And being energetic would be an acceptable part of society

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Technically, ADD doesn't exist. The DSM doesn't recognise it as existing anymore. ADHD, I think, it's mostly BS. I'm sure it exists, but not nearly the way people think it does.Quote: from 534534553453 at 8:23 am on June 25, 2009

---

People often talk about people with ADHD not knowing whats right from wrong.  

I know plenty of people that have been diagnosed with it, and whether they're on or off medication, they're perfectly normal. Generally, their social intelligence is a bit low, but otherwise they're perfectly average.

 But let me ask you this....  

 Who has the right to state what is right and wrong in the world?  

 Who says that 2+2 has to be 4?  

 People are quick to label themselves or other people for having some sort of "disorder" simply because they don't "fit in"  

 But fit into what exactly?  

 A world full of war, hatred, greed, selfishness & propaganda?  

 You zone out, because thats who you are, you daydream, because thats apart of you....  

 You're not hyperactive..... everybody else is lazy...  

 See where i'm going with this?  

 There is no right or wrong!  

 "Everything" means "nothing"..... because we all perceive things differently.  

 Your idea of a perfect world isnt the same as someone elses idea of a perfect world.

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Wow. You've obviously got no idea what you're talking about.

~Maggot

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Brain analysis using SPECT images of people with adhd show that they often have as much as 50% less blood flow in parts of the cerebellum.
I have ADHD, and no matter how hard i try, I simply cannot manage it without medication.

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Quote: from insurgent at 8:00 pm on June 30, 2009

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A.D.D. and A.D.H.D are very real.

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What makes it real?

Would ADHD exist if nobody ever thought of it in the first place?

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Would cancer?

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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dude, people with different favorite activities will show up different on brain scans. it doesnt mean its a brain caused thing, the brain is just a manifestation of an emotional state

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ilovemyheart
What makes it real?

Would ADHD exist if nobody ever thought of it in the first place?

ADHD is an invention, just like every other idea in the world.

Something can't exist without being developed into an idea first.

If ADHD was never invented.... then we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

And being energetic would be an acceptable part of society

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A.D.H.D was not "invented," it's a label for a disorder.  (Do you even know what the word "invent" means?)  Anyway. It's actually a psychological disorder caused by a slight imbalance of the chemicals such as seratonin, epinephrin, noepinephrin, etc...you know, the chemicals near the brain stem that control hunger, moods, energy, and the like?

I know for certain they both exist because I was diagnosed with A.D.D. when I was younger, and developed bipolar disorder recently.  I can't sit still whatsoever in a manic episode, and some days I'll go without sleep or run solely on two hours of sleep.  Not to mention my friend's brother was diagnosed with just A.D.H.D roughly 19 years ago.  That guy never sits still unless he's extremely blitzed (drunk and high) or asleep.

That would be awesome if it was just "invented," though.  If that was so, you think maybe I could take mine to Wal-Mart and get my money back?

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Maximus:
I knew a man who once said, death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back.
- Gladiator

And if ADD/ADHD doesn't exist, neither does anxiety, depresion, bipolar disorder, schitzophrenia,  and ocd....

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Quote: from iconoclast at 9:17 pm on July 4, 2009

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dude, people with different favorite activities will show up different on brain scans. it doesnt mean its a brain caused thing, the brain is just a manifestation of an emotional state

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During those activities, yes. And yes it varies from person to person, but you can't say that the majority of checkers players have less blood flow in a part of their brain. In controlled experiments it has been proven that people with adhd lack blood flow in parts of the cerebrum but often make up for it in other areas of the brain.

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and you gotta take into account that if ADHD is an emotional state, then while in it, theyll have less blod flow or whatever. its totally irrelevant man

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join this group only if youre a mod

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Quote: from uPiNsMoKe420 at 12:11 pm on July 5, 2009

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Quote: from iconoclast at 9:17 pm on July 4, 2009

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dude, people with different favorite activities will show up different on brain scans. it doesnt mean its a brain caused thing, the brain is just a manifestation of an emotional state

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During those activities, yes. And yes it varies from person to person, but you can't say that the majority of checkers players have less blood flow in a part of their brain. In controlled experiments it has been proven that people with adhd lack blood flow in parts of the cerebrum but often make up for it in other areas of the brain.

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actually people who are REALLY focused on certain activities often have higher blood flow to certain areas and corresponding less to other areas in real time, not just while playing

and you gotta take into account that if ADHD is an emotional state, then while in it, theyll have less blod flow or whatever. its totally irrelevant man

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no, it's no really an emotional state

I am adhd 99% of the time, that 1% being when i am hyperfocused, which is an adhd symptom, so if you count that then 100%....