I have trouble seeing what's so offensive about it.

I miss her and I am really getting off my arse to sort my life out and I just want the chance to show her that. I know she's hurt and she's said she wants nothing to do with me, but we are married and I just want this chance.

Why shouldn't I send this. I just want her to sit back and enjoy her life whilst leaving open the possibility that I can change and she can have her life as well as her husband. I don't understand what's so wrong with that. We vowed till death do us part and for better or worse, and I know I have failed and I have been stupid and ill but I want to to prove to her that I can change. I just want the chance. Just a freaking chance - why is that so unfair of me?

Please share your thoughts.

Note: Kira has since spent ages helping me to edit this letter into a much better version to think about sending at some point, so the letter below is actually the updated one she helped me right. Sorry if that confuses anyone.

<3 Kira muchos

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Dear Louise,

Before you read this, I want to ask you to do something. I want to ask that you put out of your mind, if you can, the sorry, depressed and self-absorbed boy that you left nearly three weeks ago. I want you to put that guy out of your mind when you read this because it's not him begging and crying and pleading who writes this.  

I'm not saying that part of me has disappeared entirely. What I am saying is that I am trying fucking hard to be the man I once was and to take control and responsibility for my life. I have done some incredibly hard and brave things in the last few weeks and I deserve props for those. As a man starting to take responsibility for my own life I am asking you adult to adult to take this letter seriously because of the vows I made to you and you to me.

I know you felt you had to choose between your life and your husband because you couldn't see how I could ever be a part of the life you wanted to lead. Please try and understand that I have been ill and I was stupid to become so self absorbed in my illness that I neglected your needs completely. Somewhere inside I am still the intelligent, caring, friendly and optimistic guy you married and I am working hard to rebuild my life and make something of myself both in terms of work and in the community.

I can't bear the thought that I have fucked up our marriage forever and that you think you can't have the happy life you have got now AND have the guy you married in it somewhere. I want to be there to share that life and I want to have a life of my own to share with you.

I am writing to ask for the chance to show you with actions and not merely with words that I am getting off my sorry arse and making amends for all the years I have failed to have the courage to confront my problems. Since you left I have completed two assessments for therapy and committed to seeing a psychiatrist at the Mental Health Department, I have obtained a voluntary job as an advice worker with the Brighton and Hove Disability Federation, I am searching for paid work and have applied for several administration positions, and I have started trying to make new friends and actually get in touch with real people again.

I do not ask that you come back now. I want you to enjoy your new life and I need space to build my own life up. I know have to do this by myself. You have no idea what an eye opener the last few weeks of being on my own, facing my problems, and talking to Pamela about my childhood have been. I'm not claiming an epiphany, but I am saying that I now know I can get my life back together with time.

In the mean time all I ask Louise is that we keep in touch. I want to have the chance continue to show you the changes I am making, and I would like you to keep our marriage open so I can prove to you I am the bloody great guy you deserve and were excited to marry.

In the end what I am really asking is that you don't completely give up on me just yet. Please, for the sake of all the happiness and friendship we did share in our 8 years together and vows I made to you but I failed to keep until now, give me a chance to show you with my actions that I can build a life that does not depend on you or anyone but myself as its foundation, a life that can compliment yours and contribute to our marriage and our future happiness.

Take care,

~Mark

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Post edited at 8:27 pm on May 12, 2008 by britishguy

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I have been keeping up with your situation but until now didn't think it was my place to step in, seeing as I have never been married. However I feel that this would be the opportune time for me to help you out.

Honestly, as a girl I know that I don't believe things that are told to me. Now I'm not saying that Louise is just like me; although if she is then the less contact the better. It seems that she is really using this time to sort herself out and figure out who she is. Only when she comes to terms with who she is will she even consider you. Also, when you come to terms who you are without her it will be proof that you can be self dependant and maybe she needs to see that.

If you really want to change for her, get out there and be brave. Change yourself from the inside out. Get involved in activities, go out with friends, just have a good time. By showing her that you are utilizing this time to become something rather then wait for something may be the only way that you can really prove that you are willing to do whatever it takes.

Words are often meaningless to people. Especially if they have no proof that the person will actually change. That's why I really want to stress that rather write her a note; respect that she needs space and focus on yourself. It sounds selfish I know but you need to change yourself regardless. Even if you don't get her back; (Just putting that out there) you need to change who you are in the future. Take this as a learning experience and get your emotions and life in order.

I do hope I helped.
Good luck with this.

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livejournal.

I know she can't believe just my words, but that's why i want the chance to prove it to her. WHat sucks is that she has said that even if I do change, even if I manage to pull this off then she won't take another look at me. She say that she can never see us going for counselling, never see us going for coffee even and that even if I do change then it really is nothing to do with her any more.

That's the only opportunity I want. I don't want her to come back. I want to sort my life out on my own and be able to say I did it. But I want to be able to show her and to have the chance to prove that our marriage isn't yet hopeless.

It's not the doing it I mind. It's not the having to prove it that I mind. It's the way she's saying she doesn't care if I do. We're married. She should care if that can be saved and she should care if I can show her the person she married once again. I can't stand that she's giving up on me while I'm trying so hard to prove there's still hope.

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I like that you have put this and you want to send it on to Louise however remember actions always speak louder than words. I know you are trying to re-build your life which is great for you however maybe she also needs the time to think hers through. Maybe if you can find a way to have a conversation face to face with her it would be better as you will then be able to talk about things serious and also show you genuinely want to change things.

I know I don't know much about who your wife is or anything however she said what she said maybe because she was upset and hurt by the person you had become, maybe you can change that views. Give her a bit of space and when things are a bit better for you why not arrange to meet her and show her the great guy you have become.

About the marriage you need to discuss it with her, you've been together for 8 years, is it really worth not fighting for in my opinion she must still care about you deep down so like I've said you never know what might happen once you have began the journey which you have to take into become a better man,

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Dreaming Of A Day Where Things Are Different!
Fruitlady is my Wifey
The Love Group Is Back

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I like that you have put this and you want to send it on to Louise however remember actions always speak louder than words. I know you are trying to re-build your life which is great for you however maybe she also needs the time to think hers through. Maybe if you can find a way to have a conversation face to face with her it would be better as you will then be able to talk about things serious and also show you genuinely want to change things.

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I disagree... at this point I personally think a letter is better than a face-to-face conversation. Conversations can potentially lead to people saying things they weren't planning on saying and conversations do not give people space and time to think.

You've mentioned that things started going down hill about two years ago, I believe. So it's taken two years of troubles between you and Louise for her to finally decide she couldn't take it anymore and leave. Two years is an awfully long time and at this point, I don't see how almost three weeks time can be enough to turn around and mend a life path of bad habits that's been allowed to grow over two years.

Your letter has great ideas but those ideas are not yet based off a true and stolid foundation. Your other topics contradict this letter. You know this; Louise will know this too.

Please don't get me wrong! The efforts you have made thus far are more than excellent and are an amazing start. But a start is just the beginning. Following through with your efforts to remind Louise why she married you is the important part. Even more important, though, is making these changes for YOU, not for Louise. Don't let your motivation fail in vain if she doesn't seem to care. You are working to improve your life, independently. Once you have achieved this, that's when your letter will be backed with true meaning.

Louise isn't going to forget about you. Although it would be sweet to be able to update her with every step you take to reaching your goals, she also needs space to figure out her own feelings. Forcing yourself upon her will only make her want to take another step back. You can't make her want to come back and you can't rush things either. In the mean time, all you can do is focus on yourself and your own goals. Keep a diary to record your progress and continue updating us as well.

Mark, I wish you all the best!

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Wool comes from cows!.TEST

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I am taking action. I am applying for jobs, I am trying to get into the world, I am going for therapy.

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You are doing everything absolutely correct. Keep bettering yourself so that should she choose to keep an eye on your changes; she will really see your improvement. Even if she doesn't you will pull through a stronger and self dependant man. That is certainly something to be proud of. Don't worry, your life is not over. I know that it seems that way now; granted it's easier said then realized but it's the truth. Your life will go on with or without Louise, the best that you can do is move on with your life.

If you are going to send her anything at all, I would advise to keep it short and sweet. Just enough to let her know that you care, but not going into detail about things.

Perhaps a, "Louise I'm going to spend this time sorting out my life, I really wish you luck with your ventures. Should you choose to contact me I will always have a phone nearby. I love you." would suffice.

This would show her that you intend on giving her the space that she seems to desire, and you are sorting out your life but you are still there for her should she need you. I'll bet that she would find this noble. The simplicity of the message would also probably intrigue her. of course I think you should put it into your own words, but that was just a helpful little example, dear.

Anyway, moving on.

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It's the way she's saying she doesn't care if I do

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Honestly I would bet all of the money I have that she really does care. You guys were married and you know that she loves you. Women put up fronts. Especially when they are trying to be strong. Expect her to act like she doesn't care for a while, it's really the only way she can handle things. By pretending that she doesn't care it is easier to set herself apart from you. If she needs this time apart to figure things out then it's really the only option. Just do what you promised her. don't spend your days moping around. I know it is hard and you are sad; but it's not going to fix anything by sitting around all day and crying. Truth be told it will only complicate the situation more. You are very aware that Louise wants too see you become dependant on yourself and I'm sure that she is really curious if you will do it. Don't be so sure that she is neglecting you entirely. I would bet that she is keeping tabs on you somehow.

Keep bettering yourself, Mark. You sound like a very brave man, and I'm sure that at the end of this complicating mess you're in there will be a bright future in one way or another.

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livejournal.

The key in the letter... which I tried to bring out in my edits but I think can be brought out more at the end maybe... is that you need to let Louse know she can have her space while you have your space to work out your own life for you.

I guess I'm just trying to get her to wait for me is the thing. I know I need to show her long-term and sustained change - I need to get a job and hold it down for instance - I'm just so worried about how much she's enjoying life without me in the mean time. She seems to have no intention to wait and see if I do anything. She seems to have no interest in whether i can turn my life around. She's made her decision and that's it. Before I go away and leave her be for a few months I want to know she's at least going to be interested in what I do. That's all I want to know - that she'll give me a chance.

I'm not trying to say I've done it all already - I'm just trying to show her I've done enough to start that she should maybe wait and see if I pull through. I suppose this is like me saying, "I'm going away for a few months to get my life sorted out. Please wait for me, or keep in touch so that you know how I'm doing, and just don't give up on me just yet."

I don't want her to find someone else in the mean time or to give up on me now before I've even begun.

True, she won't forget me, but she might put me behind her, move on, decide she's much better off without me. Right now all she remembers is the crap from the last year or so when she's been so unhappy. She may not forget me, but she might spend the whole time thinking on that and convincing herself I was no good, and with the help of her girlfriends and maybe even her family that would make any changes I make completely useless.

Post edited at 6:38 pm on May 12, 2008 by britishguy

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it's a good letter but scott's first sentence sums it up, I nodded when I read it. His post is a good point and it may feel like 3 years when it's been 3 weeks, to you, but let this wait. Save the letter just in case and put it aside where you won't take it out and be tempted to send it in another week.

this stuff is surprising me, I think in some ways she's had a worse time than I or you suspected, and I also think she seems a little more selfish than I previously thought.

My view of marriage is probably fairly obvious, "for better or worse" means more than "unless, of course, I really get sick of it" and marriage vows mean such a bond in the eyes of God that I am a little fearful of taking them on! it seems louise either doesn't place such a value as you thought on it, or has changed as a result of various pressures over the last 2 years. i can sort of understand it from the point of view of someone without, er like, the reinforcement of God's law in their mentality. if it gets too tough you just get out of it, type thing. it's still a bit unexpected from what I knew of your relationship but i do feel vows to be a bit unreliable in general outside of biblical law. i'm even scared of them within it, come to think of it - people seem to be making marriage commitments all over the place that last a while and then come to divorce and it scares me! it's like you can't trust someone even when they're so sincere on the wedding day. arp

sorry, I'm starting to ramble, and using too many commas, I think I haven't had enough exercise.

but yes those are my thoughts on the sending of the message for now.

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Scott, you make a good point. My other topic where I'm going to pieces and stuff does contradict the letter and does make it insincere. It's not that my intentions are not right - I'm not trying to be dishonest, but you're right that at the moment I don't have enough substance behind these words and Louise might well think or know the same.

I guess I'm just trying to get her to wait for me is the thing. I know I need to show her long-term and sustained change - I need to get a job and hold it down for instance - I'm just so worried about how much she's enjoying life without me in the mean time. She seems to have no intention to wait and see if I do anything. She seems to have no interest in whether i can turn my life around. She's made her decision and that's it. Before I go away and leave her be for a few months I want to know she's at least going to be interested in what I do. That's all I want to know - that she'll give me a chance.

I'm not trying to say I've done it all already - I'm just trying to show her I've done enough to start that she should maybe wait and see if I pull through. I suppose this is like me saying, "I'm going away for a few months to get my life sorted out. Please wait for me, or keep in touch so that you know how I'm doing, and just don't give up on me just yet."

I don't want her to find someone else in the mean time or to give up on me now before I've even begun.

True, she won't forget me, but she might put me behind her, move on, decide she's much better off without me. Right now all she remembers is the crap from the last year or so when she's been so unhappy. She may not forget me, but she might spend the whole time thinking on that and convincing herself I was no good, and with the help of her girlfriends and maybe even her family that would make any changes I make completely useless.

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I know you are not trying to be dishonest. I also understand you were using your other topic to vent, focusing on your worries and other negatives, over-powering anything that might seem good.

Your reply to me here, explaining your reasons for your letter, seem much more valid to me than what I actually got out of the letter. I think maybe if you are going to send something, it should be more what you wrote to me, than what you have written to Louise. Sometimes too many ideas in one letter and mottle the main reason of your letter. I, myself am a victim of this offence.

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Wool comes from cows!.TEST

I read your letter and I believe that it is a good start to something. However, I believe that it is also a "rough draft" - so to speak.

You need to get going with yourself. Let her have her space, as you've said in the letter, and give yourself some time to get going and get a little momentum.

I do realize that without knowing the entire situation, my input is pretty much useless, but I figured I'd share anyways. Hopefully it will trigger some thoughts and/or ideas for you.

Marriage is something I won't be taking on any time soon but I have dealt with similar issues with my parents. My parents divorced when i was 1 year old and my father remarried, along with my mother. My mother divorced her second husband after 8 years due to some commitment problems he had and she has now remarried again and is happy as ever.

My point here, is that I have seen what marriages can do to people and I think that the best step, as others have said, is to just take some time apart and realize that not only is it the right thing to do - but it's healthy.

In your situation, my friend, I think that a letter is a very good idea but it definitely needs some polishing. From the sounds of it, you screwed up somewhere along the line and you now realize what you're missing and that shows a good start to some progress.

My advice, overall, is to polish the letter up and wait another couple of weeks. Also, don't email it. Write it out by hand and mail it. This, for some reason, always showed more caring and thought versus an email that could be typed in 15 minutes.

I hope everything works out and just remember, as many people believe, everything happens for a reason. So if this doesn't work out, then you can take this VALUABLE "lesson" and experience and use it in your future. Not only you, but she will also have learned from this experience and will be able to better herself for her future.

Good luck, man!

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smd

"I can stop peeing I gots skillzthatkillz"